TCDTC Demos

[TheBurt]

Hi, I am doing some research into Iron and Wine's unreleased stuff (for my own selfish purposes). I have read that TCDTC was an album of songs picked from a large set of demos. Does anyone know exactly which songs made up this set?

[Mitch]

The information I can give you, is this. The songs were chosen by an editor at sub pop. Sam was asked to send in a set of demos, out of the ones he sent in the editor picked the ones he felt were most suitable and cohesive for a record. This is the information that I know to be correct.

Just to warn you ahead of time, we don't have these "other" demos, and we won't help you get them.

[TheBurt]

Thanks for the reply, Mitch. I understand the policy of this board, so I am not trying to get anything but info here. I am really just trying to get a feel for when songs were written; does anyone know exactly what songs were a part of this first set?

[Mitch]

I actually realized that I didn't answer your question at all. I don't know of the specific tracks that were included on the disc that was submitted. Some of the tracks that are floating around on the internet, have labels that say 2000-2001, 2002 etc. I don't know if these dates are correct, some of the song's I think would have been done around the same time judging by Sam's sound would be.

Swans and the Swimming

Morning

Friends They Are Jewels

Call Your Boys

Dearest Forsaken

Sacred Vision

Loud As Hope

Homeward These Shoes

All of the songs listed there can be found on Around The Well. I can say that I have seen a few of those songs listed as coming from the same time frame as the ones that made it on to TCDTC. So i'm not saying that those were ones that were on the first set, but I would think that if any unreleased ones were those would be included. Especially seeing as a few of those songs appeared on 7" and singles from that time frame. I don't know if that helps you at all, but I think it's a better reply than my first one.

[becktrader]

Just to be clear, The Creek Drank The Cradle IS composed from "demo" recordings of Sam's from the original tapes.  There are no known alternate versions of those tracks.  The very first Iron & Wine release ("Call Your Boys" b/w "Dearest Forsaken") includes two of the demos which are available on Around The Well as Mitch mentioned.  The release of "Creek" gave us eleven more from the same batch of demos.  The "Creek" bonus 7" ("Her Tea Leaves" b/w "Carissa's Weird") gave us two more.

It's my understanding that the "Sea and the Rhythm" EP also includes songs from the same original pool of demos.  Probably just "The Sea And The Rhythm," "Jesus The Mexican Boy" and "Beneath The Balcony" are from the original batch of demos based on what we know.  That makes for a total of at least 18 official released from the original batch.

The two demo collections labeled 10/1/01 and 9/20/02 (well-known to collectors and easy to find online) contained these:

10/1/01
1. The Sea And The Rhythm
2. Jesus The Mexican Boy
3. Rattling Bone *
4. Her Tea Leaves
5. Dearest Forsaken
6. God Gave A Stone *
7. Beneath the Balcony
8. Minor Piano Keys *
9. Sixteen, Maybe Less *
10. Foot Of The Manger *
11. Carissa's Weird

9/20/02
1. Jezebel *
2. The Night Descending
3. A History Of Lovers *
4. Mothers Of The Rodeo *
5. Swans And The Swimming
6. Wade Across The Water *
7. Love And Some Verses *
8. He Lays In The Reins *
9. Teeth In The Grass *
10. Sunset Soon Forgotten *
11. Hickory

* officially unreleased song or version

Now, nobody knows what the dates on those collections mean (probably the date they were burned to CD or sent to Sub Pop or elsewhere), but "Creek" was released on 9/24/02, so it's assumed that "The Night Descending" was maybe a new-ish song when the EP came out about a year later.

So there's a total of five more unreleased tracks from the 10/1/01 set.  Then there's the 2002 tour EP, which adds another four to the total:

1. The Sea And The Rhythm
2. Jesus The Mexican Boy
3. Red Dust
4. Someday The Waves
5. Overhead
6. Dead Man's Will

That's 27 known Sub Pop demo-era songs, it's pretty unlikely Sam would have sent many more than two CD's worth.  And only five are "officially" unreleased!

As for the 9/20/02 disc, it may or may not include earlier material, but it's generally associated with "Our Endless Numbered Days" and newer, post "Creek" material.

[TheBurt]

Thanks for the reply, very good analysis. It is kind of interesting how some of Sam's newer stuff is really just older stuff.

[xtina1982]

that demo version of jezebel makes me cry every time i hear it.  i'm not sure what it is about it, but it gave me chills.

also, i need to rethink my theory about Sea and the Rhythm.  i've staunchly maintained it had to have been written after they'd had their first kid, but if it was dated 2001 the timing isn't right.  hmmmmmmmmmm.

[Veritas]

that demo version of jezebel makes me cry every time i hear it.  i'm not sure what it is about it, but it gave me chills.

also, i need to rethink my theory about Sea and the Rhythm.  i've staunchly maintained it had to have been written after they'd had their first kid, but if it was dated 2001 the timing isn't right.  hmmmmmmmmmm.

Well it just might be the "Casillero del Diablo" speaking, but Sam is a big Dylan fan, and just like Dylan's "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall" , Sam might have anticipated his son's/daughter's birth. Or maybe I'm just looking too deep into it, sorry.

[Justin]

Sure he was anticipating his child's birth. Where do you think the "milk from your breast is on my lips" line came from? 

[xtina1982]

thanks, guys - my theory still works. 

a lot of people that think it's written from the perspective of a child to a mother.  i guess it's possible, but...i just don't think so.  it all falls apart for me right around "when salty my sweat and fingertips" - i can't read that as anything but intimacy.

BLAH BLAH BLAH sorry, got a little OT.

[farmolio]

thanks, guys - my theory still works. 

a lot of people that think it's written from the perspective of a child to a mother.  i guess it's possible, but...i just don't think so.  it all falls apart for me right around "when salty my sweat and fingertips" - i can't read that as anything but intimacy.

BLAH BLAH BLAH sorry, got a little OT.

I think you're right about the intimacy- that line isn't ambiguous at all.  But it's probably not all that valid to say that the song is autobiographical.   Sam's writing is filled with all kinds of intimate moments that feel personal and real, but most likely aren't.  There's no reason to assume that this one is autobiographical, just because it's unspecific (or universal) enough that it could be.

[hannah]

To add to Farmolio's response, didn't Sam say in one of the PA interviews that most of his songs aren't autobiographical even though he really plays with personal intimate moments? I would definitely say that the themes he draws on are personal to where he is in his life, but the actual subject matter of the songs isn't specific to his life.

[yutzie]

I think you're right about the intimacy- that line isn't ambiguous at all.  But it's probably not all that valid to say that the song is autobiographical.   Sam's writing is filled with all kinds of intimate moments that feel personal and real, but most likely aren't.  There's no reason to assume that this one is autobiographical, just because it's unspecific (or universal) enough that it could be.

i wonder that all the time. i know from reading on here that his songs aren't necessarily autobiographical, but you can't help wondering which parts of what songs are. like "jesus the mexican boy" where he runs off to get married secretly. i/we don't know all the details to sam's life (that would just be creepy. right?), but did he and his wife elope? did sam's father die in georgia? is his father even dead? did his dog really have pups in the pantry?

[xtina1982]

To add to Farmolio's response, didn't Sam say in one of the PA interviews that most of his songs aren't autobiographical even though he really plays with personal intimate moments? I would definitely say that the themes he draws on are personal to where he is in his life, but the actual subject matter of the songs isn't specific to his life.

this is true, and i take most of his songs as just that - beautifully, eloquently crafted stories.  but there's a couple of his songs - Sea and the Rhythm and The Years Seal Their Beauty - that i have a hard time listening to because they feel so personal, like i've seen or heard something that wasn't really any of my business, an open journal or an overheard conversation.  hell, i have a hard time even analyzing it. 

i could be way off.  there's a good chance i am.  but i've never been able to shake the feeling those in particular were a little more autobiographical than most.

[zeb]

He really needs to resurrect Minor Piano Keys. That song is twelve kinds of awesome.